International Luxemburgist Forum - Foro Luxemburguista Internacional - Forum Luxemburgiste Intl

Forum for those in general agreement with the ideas of Rosa Luxemburg.
Foro para aquellos que tienen un acuerdo general con las ideas de Rosa Luxemburgo.
Forum pour ceux qui ont un accord général avec les idées de Rosa Luxembourg.


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    No fly zone or no no fly zone


    Number of posts : 151
    Registration date : 2010-12-13

    No fly zone or no no fly zone

    Post  lost on Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:44 pm

    the "coalition"took its time to decide ona no fly zone over libya.i do not doubt it used that time to position itself,although it is a loosely structured entity.that position is essentially political,functional and related to a set of capitalist interest.some kind of ethics mediated through the united nations provides a cover for what is essentially greedy.geasping collective class-state self interests.real morality,however decided has nothing in it.the puppet masters have the sanctimoniously reassuring smile of death.

    up to the day before the no fly zone started.i saw posters on placards on news footage argueing against even no fly zone intervention.much later on i read a posting on this website that argued against that intervention.days into it i heard resistance fighters,and civilians and doctors as well as "representatives of that reistance,particularly of the national transition(al)council putting differente and opposite and inevitably contradictory positions.most if not all those people were directly under fire or at immediate risk.there were and are confusions-not least the no fly zone whoever organises it is not the brake on very much,and is not a coverall solution.

    meanwhile the left of all persuasions within the coalition felt some kind of solidarity with some element or other in libya.some defend the regime and the so-called green revolution of the regime.

    most of us recognised how weak and uanble we are to make any difference.few came up with alternatives.ive seen no evidence of any meaningful solidarity.but we had a good "slanging match"with each other,in which the pro no flyers called their opponents fake revolutionaries or simply callous.some continued to argue against,pointing out the problems.

    i admit i wavered but remain convinced that we do have to struggle to think and write clearly and independently for working class interests,and for building meaningful solidarity and for a ruthlessness towards whatever our rulers do.

    i do not want to crow,to be pessimistic or is clear that the regime and the resistance are in jeapardy and that there are few clear or simple lines of development.what is certainly true is the bloody truth that whatever position we argue,until and unless it engages with something,changes nothing.

    people die.the resistance struggles and bleeds.

    the no fly zone remains in place and the coalition already talks of ending it,having done nothing at all to "no fly zone"over misrata which remains under seige,and the resistance remains in courageous but desperate struggle.

    and our opinions have not connected with anything so far and have not changed so far that we have conducted such a useless sectarian argument amongst ourselves which is always easy=me included=we should be ashamed.

    if we are not to go on being ashamed,we need to continue a constructive debate,which seeks out building real solidarity.buillding theory from abstraction and experience is one things.chattering,sectarian abstraction on abstraction is of less value than establishing how many angels can stand on a pin marx said..."everything solid melts into air"

    so where are the workplaces and communities with connections to libya?where are the model campaigning resolutions we can develop and build on.the medical staff are asking for help-so where is our money-and the "underground railraod"to get the aid,the money to the libyan resistance.



    Number of posts : 151
    Registration date : 2010-12-13


    Post  lost on Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:56 am

    today bbc news 24 is reporting that the british government is planning to see in british officers to advise the resistance in what they now refer to as eastern libya.

    what both sides of the left,for and against capitlist state intervention can agree is that they have the power and the hardware but spend an almighty amount of time talk,talk,talk...

    we dont have much clout,except to otganise where is it?if we dont know whe should be looking to create and/or to find it.we should stop our sectraian bickering and get on with organising that solidarity and practical assistance


    Number of posts : 151
    Registration date : 2010-12-13

    may 5th referendum on AV/altrnative voting

    Post  lost on Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:18 am

    i have written earler about the forthcoming referendum on alternative the campaigns have taken off but seem more interested in sniping at each other than explaining anything to the face of the con-dem gangs lack of any mandate.the years of ripping off public funds and bleating about the penalties-all with a resulting decline in confidence by the public-they demonstrate that they still ned teaqching a lesson.combine this with the way they impose their capitalist crisis on us-is an invitation to us to punish them hard and permanently.

    we should mobilize to get rid of their class and their miserable the forthcoming voting it seems to me the choice is between no and spoiling the ballot paper,and i genuyinely dont know which does most harm or give the clearest message.

    we dont want further gerrymandering with their failing democracy.av or proportional representation is all the same rubbish.i dont want them governing,ruling or ntrolling me in any way whatsoever.i dont want any of them from the bnp,tghrough the usual lot right through to the parties of the left like the cp or swp rulling over me.i want a full blown workers democracy and nothing less than that.i want it and nothing less is good enough.

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    Re: No fly zone or no no fly zone

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